of the will & conscience from our Creator God may be the most foundational gift ever. May we not be deluded by satan & his devices & demonic forces. May we be awake & filled with the light & love of God & go forward in His truth & wisdom. ❤️💔❤️🩹
The highest expression of free will, the most fruitful for those of us with such limited vision, is to seek and embrace Divine Will, which is compassionate, wise and beneficent.
But we have to freely choose it. We have free will.
Things could go much more harmoniously if we did not.
[There is a case to be made that the "unjust/jealous god" of the Torah/Old Testament is not the Loving God-the-Father taught by Jesus, but a physical-world mechanistic-creator, the "Demiurge".]
I think I read somewhere about a man who said “do unto Thy neighbour what you wish to be done unto thee, do not do unto Thy neighbour what you do not wish to be done unto thee” or something like that. It’s quite simple, it’s called human dignity. Not so easy to find these days.....
20 years ago, and I'm speaking honestly, and hopefully not offensively, I would have perceived your comments as "fundamentalist".
But now, since I no longer hold that "God" is an individualized being, but the primordial source of all potentials and subsequent creations, I also no longer hold a belief in the individualized evil being of Satan.
If Sasha's reasoning is sound, and I believe it is, I think we can conclude that all beings are exercising their free will by the choices they make, no matter what time matrix, density, or realm they happen to be making them from.
But, it's all God.
Or gods, in various stages of evolution or evolution.
I also mean no offense, but need to ask, how do you know what you said is true? If you are like the rest of us, you do not know what is in your neighbor's garage without having a look and have never been beyond the edge of the universe or the 3-4 dimensions of your existence. Is it blind faith to go into a bakery and deny the existence of a baker or to assume the baker's existence by the sight and smell of cakes, doughnuts, and cookies, an existence separate from the baked goods? The existence of a personal God is intuitively and immediately obvious by the nature of the universe, but denied because it implies culpability for our choices and actions. Making all things god eliminates culpability in the same way. And regarding the existence of the devil, moral evil is always personal and exists nowhere but in the heart/will of beings possessing free agency. I, too, wish for you to be blessed.
Wow Craig B. Great thoughts. I'll take a crack at answering some of them, but I actually have more questions than answers.
First, any of us only know what we know based on our own experiences. From your baker/bakery scenario, it seems that you are saying that the existence of baked goods, inherently proves the existence of the baker. Therefore, the existence of any and all objects of creation, inherently proves the existence of God.
But does it prove the existence of an individualized, all powerful, God being?
I suspect not.
Don't think I am arguing against the existence of God. I am promoting the idea that our simple minds conveniently cast God in the likeness of an individualized being, because we generally don't have the capacity to perceive the true majesty, and transcendent magnificence of the God reality.
I don't see how casting all things as god relieves us of any culpability. Just the opposite. If we are Gods, wouldn't it be logical to accept responsibility for All of Creation
Lurking in the background of this discussion is the concept of free will. God doesn't reward or punish us. God allows us to create, to choose, to experience. That's how we learn. This a standard that exceeds mere morality. We eventually learn to choose wisely what we create, and bring into our reality. Especially when we realize that we will experience our creations.
If we want to know what's in our neighbors garage, we can take a stroll thru time distance and space and take a look.
Likewise, it is possible to "see" other dimensions, other realms, other time matrices.
Thank you for the thoughtful and kind response, CS. The "garage" analogy shows our inability to know transcendent realities and answer transcendent questions apart from objective revelation, otherwise we are merely guessing, positing things from blind faith. As you might suspect, I believe God has spoken, first through the prophets, most profoundly in Christ, and then by His appointed Apostles as moved by God the Holy Spirit. All people reason by faith in an ultimate authority, either human opinion and personal, subjective experience, which is unreliable (to wit, the "garage" analogy) or an objective, external revelation. At issue is which can be trusted and comports with reality as we know it (hence the baker behind the baked goods analogy). As for us as "god's," we are inadequate as the cause of reality, and untrustworthy in our interpretation of reality apart from revelation, whereas the personal, eternal, infinite God as creator and sustainer of all things is not only trustworthy and sufficient for the effect, the nature of reality gives intuitive and immediately visible revelation of His genius, power, providence, and goodness, in addition to the more definitive revelation of Scripture. See Romans 1:18ff. Just a little food for thought. Thanks, again, CS.
And thank you Craig B. These are delicate understandings to discuss, Especially via a "text" type format. Romans 1:18 is an ominous warning indeed. But forgive me for doubting that an all loving God would punish people for their wickedness. Wickedness in and of itself seems sufficient punishment to me in that one experiences the reality of soulless wickedness. What could be worse?
God allows. Otherwise we would not have Free Will. Why do bad things happen to good people? Because God allows. We are responsible for every thing in our reality.
As additional food for thought I'd like to share one of my favorite verses, John 14:12.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father."
How inspiring! He is not asking to be worshiped, but emulated. Greater works than these will WE do! How would that be possible if we were not of the same fabric as Jesus himself?
The greatest compliment expressed toward another being is to want to "be" like them. To know and demonstrate what they know. We, like Jesus, are the miracle workers. It is our divine right. To ignore that is travesty.
Note: though it may seem that our views are at odds, ultimately they are not. I can see that you have a love for goodness and value righteousness. Though we express it differently, we have that in common. ( I believe)
I fear that under the heavy censorship of many countries, people are going to find opposing facts more difficult to find. I still see many people walking around with inadequate information and are trying to inform themselves. I see the damage that this is causing.
Nietzsche was correct. Free will is limited by your choices.
If you were born into a family or society where learning and growing is encouraged, you have the choice to do something positive. In a society where opportunities are slim to none, what free will do people have? The unemployment numbers have been artificially low for decades, as they changed the way it's counted. As soon as you run out of unemployment benefits, you're not counted as unemployed. It's a sham, just like the cost of living index which also was manipulated to count housing much less than it used to, despite housing being the most of our expenses (unless you bought into the market before the ridiculous increases in price).
I'm not condoning the political manipulation around San Francisco, but many people who have jobs cannot afford housing, thanks to this bullshit housing bubble that has been climbing for 2 decades. Funny how that wasn't counted as inflation, but as "investment".
Anyway, look at social democratic states in Europe and see how homelessness is much less than in the good old US. Also what's funny is that a while back I read that those nations have much more upward mobility than our so called "free society". 😂
Why do we have more homeless people and drug addicts? Perhaps because the economy is really shitty?
Do you think people want to be homeless if they had opportunities to work and live in a house or apartment?
San Fran also has more homeless because of the weather being moderate. Perhaps instead of spending $200 billion on the Ukraine war and the billions for other wars, we could fix homelessness 10 times over. But no, that's bad... It's good to spend money to kill people and destroy lives, not to help people.
It is a complex issue and you make some excellent points. But, people can move to where housing is affordable and where they can work to afford it. Not all should live on Nob Hill (SF) or Uptown Manhatten--such is not a divine right. And many, not all, would prefer to live on the street, as long as they can get away with it, than to work or submit to the authority of a boss if given the opportunity. Many, not all, are there because of a long line of choices, freely made. Some choices are constrained, many are not, and opportunities abound if one has the will to pursue them and pay the cost of hard work. I have worked with the homeless and many have a strong sense of entitlement and would curse you if you told them they had to work like the rest of us. Not all, but many.
Exactly true. I worked at a foodbank for awhile and came across the same arrogant sense of entitlement. Gratitude was very rare. Entitlement was the norm. I quit because we were not truly helping anyone. Charity should be temporary and the recipient should be grateful. Otherwise it’s a doomed policy. If every lefty actually worked around the homeless with open eyes they would conclude the same.
I had the same experience handing out Thanksgiving turkeys to people in low-income sections of the Bay Area. Hardly anyone said "thank you". That is when I realized that poverty is first and foremost a mind virus. Poverty starts when you feel too poor to be able to afford a few words of gratitude.
Living in India, I experience this daily. Those we consider destitute, and who think of themselves as poor, don't seem to have words of gratitude in their vocabulary! In fact, we have to train our employees that when someone gives them something, a "thank you" is appropriate, and may incite that person to give them more. However, if there is no acknowledgment, no gratitude, the faucet (the flow/currency) will likely be turned off.
It's an uphill battle. Poverty and a sense of entitlement seem to go hand in hand. I can't see how anyone can work their way out of poverty while feeling that "the world" owes them. The lack of self-responsibility and the unawareness of one's own free will (even if it's a sliver to begin with), hence the lack of personal power!, are our doom.
doubt you'd find anybody in nob hill who'd want to live in uptown manhattan.
and much as the homeless problem went on steroids when half the nation was depersoned and put out of work in 2020, there won't be any solution to homelessness in general until the border is sealed and the fentanyl (and other stuff) stops coming in
And it would be helpful to bring back the psychiatric institutions that Reagan shut down.
Many who are addicted to drugs have PTSD and other issues.
There's also the issue with the working homeless which have become a much bigger proportion because of our craptastic end stage capitalism where the markets go up up up but wages barely grew.
The Reagan Admin was forced to defund facilities after being sued by homeless advocates. The homeless argued, successfully, that unless the people were a danger to themselves or others they had a right to be non-violently insane, unhoused, disheveled, drunk/drug addicted and on the street if they so chose.
If you believe that we are eternal beings, wholly or even in part, are all choices made within the construct of a human incarnation? In other words, could some choices be made prior to the birth of a human life?
Some food for thought, a couple verses to consider: "Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being [nephesh, often translated "soul"]"(Gen. 2:7 NAS). "For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. 14 I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from Thee, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. 16 Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them." (Ps. 139:13-16 NAS)
I don't buy the idea that we chose before we existed.
I think it's like Gurdjieff stated, we aren't born with a soul. We grow it through living life. Some are essentially zombies that repeat what others do without a sense of self. Others have a strong sense of self and the key here is humility without weakness.
By soul, I think of the sense of self that exists outside of what society demands. If one just follows orders without that, do they have a soul?
Probably around 7...
"‘ Give me a child till he is seven years old,’ said St Ignatius Loyola, ‘ and I will show you the man.’
The founder of the Jesuit Brotherhood was way ahead of his time. For most of human history, serious-minded adults paid scant attention to the under-sevens. After all, small children have no obvious economic worth. They’re also difficult to control and apparently impervious to reason…
But neuroscience has proved Loyola right. Children’s experiences in those first seven years – when formation of the neural networks is governed largely by emotion – will affect their behaviour throughout life. As an international organisation determined to mould human souls for its own purposes, the Jesuit Brotherhood was spot on in targeting the very young."
A free will digress thought 💭… There is no free will in an employed medical practice, regardless of the specialty. The self employed folks have free will and many called out the jabs . The problem is , big corporations flooded the market with urgent cares and healthcare employed professionals that feed their corporations and leave the self employed healthcare professionals without patients. We have to realize we have free will and stop feeding the beast . Sasha thank you and enjoy biking! 🚴🏻
NO. Plenty of people exercised their free will, and stood their ground at their job. Many lost jobs.
You are confusing what free will actually us. People would have had to believe that the shots were bad and then had the moral fiber to stand up and say something.
Not everyone is strong enough (for whatever reason ) to stand up against something..
I'm sorry, misunderstood. Many small businesses had to close. I 100% believe it was part of the culling. I think we, the people, should start bringing bartering back. And encouraging ppl with small motor repair, HVAC, Not a company but individuals for whatever reason went with something elze. Plumbing. I don't know your wealth status ( I'm not asking, lol) and/or what your thoughts are on driving New cars as opposed to older cars. I have some definitive ideas about what I believe is coming. I'm not shy about writing them. Most ppl ignore me, but I'm haven't been wrong yet.
Person to person apps are creating their own crypto coin. I joined a P2P, but I was tired, like a cranky 5 yr old, so I was not focused. The idea behind the crypto is for businesses to be in the space and we do not have to be on DIGITAL ID, or as least as possible. Smaller footprint.
DIGITAL ID is coming, no matter who takes the POTUS chair. When I say bartering, I don't mean everyone just trade services for goods, etc. But if ppl are in the same area, think vegetables, steel made products, milk, meat, repair of small engines.
There will be a financial crisis of some sort, people will be told there money is gone. Then offered stability coins, Digital ID, people say now they will not sign up, but when desperate and scared, ppl will do things. The ID will be voluntary of course, but I imagine it resemble covidsmovid and how people who chose to not get a shot were treated..
I've babbled enough.
But I saw things happening through the years but I didn't have the wherewithall to link it to things I didn't know about. My puzzle is almost complete.
It is understandable that those with political motivations would critique free will as it dovetails nicely with their agenda to tear the social fabric apart, it is both surprising and discouraging that an intellectual of Sapolsky's stature fails to see the flaws in his argument for determinism. Does he really believe it, or is he being paid to write such a book to advance the "woke" political agenda? Impossible to say, but I suspect he wouldn't have taken all the trouble to write a book about determinism if he didn't truly believe it. Perhaps when I copy his book and republish under my name, he will not sue me for violating copyright law because I couldn't help my actions.
Twinkies probably don't have sugar anymore -- it's probably high fructose corn syrup (even worse for you, if that's possible). Not sure about this. It was the mayor of San Francisco who used it, I believe.
Sapolsky: Pointy-headed intellectual. Not surprised at the content, but who ARE these publishers today who agree to put this drivel into print? They are the lackeys !
“You don’t have free will”…is a lie repeated enough to alter the perception of reality of the vulnerable (those without God of the Bible) to be lock and step subjects of the state. No wonder the “gods” among us hate Christians, lie about our Christian heritage, envy of the Chinese government, and have great indifference and/or denial about the hell on earth created by godless power and control freaks.
I came from the third world where nothing made any sense. I imagined America as the ideal world, where everything makes perfect sense. I was stunned, when it occurred to me a while back, how much drivel the popular American culture feeds gullible crowds.
On the topic of Will, not only free will concept is upside down, but will power too. According to the virtual unreality world of American academia, the will power ends where in the real world it suppose to kick in.
After being laughed at for 3 decades for speaking up about nonsense if not evil of the multitasking, I recently noticed, that this ice began melting. All of a sudden, more and more people are pointing to the obvious. Perhaps it’s another effect of the Global Warming 🤷♂️😁
Have an enjoyable American May 1-st weekend, Sasha. )))
Thank you for taking time and exerting effort to reply.
There is never enough time spent with regular American folks. Are you inviting me for a BBQ? 😉🫶🏻
I love topic of when a shift/trend begins. It appears and you appear to be correct with the starting point of the one you mentioned. Are you familiar with Yuri Bezmenov? Check him out, if not.
You are always welcome to come by for a BBQ, what type of BBQ will you bring?
Just kidding my friend.
I live in the South, the weather is almost always good for a BBQ.
I forgot what point I made. The dumbing down of society that I noticed around 36 years ago? I too love conversations about when things began. Because otherwise, I'm just spitting in the wind, talking to myself, which is okay too.
I'm not familiar with the author you bring up. I will check them out.
Shooting the breeze is necessary with his things are these days.
There is always time to talk about things that have nothing to do with Anything on sub stack. Well, actually I do that w a wonderful person in the UK..
For any rational person to submit that we Homo sapiens lack free will, is to suggest that we are little more than exceptionally clever apes, driven entirely by instincts and impulse.
However, all but the willfully blind can see that we possess qualities which transcend the merely visceral attributes of organized matter.
In the late 20th century it became fashionable to ascribe what we perceive to be morality to evolutionary chance. That, for example, altruism reduced inter-tribal violence, leading to longer lifespans of tribal members and thus tribal flourishing, resulting in those tribes exerting greater genetic influence on the species.
But there's zero evidence, nor can there be any, that altruism wasn't the conscious choice of a free will.
Each of us intuitively KNOWS that we often make choices which will NOT improve our own situation in the moment, but which WILL improve that of others; even strangers. On occasion we might choose to do good for someone who means us harm. That choice transcends mere instincts, and must come from a force outside the individual.
From God. If you believe God exists, free will is a gift. If you do not believe God exists, "free will" is a "social construct".
The left is racist. It is racist to think that I black person does not know the difference between right and wrong because he is black or is otherwise not responsible for his own actions.
Well let's not preach about "race". Dog "breeds" are closer to humans. Some Neanderthals bred with Homo sapiens - but until 200 years ago no sub Saharan black had any Neanderthal but middle Eastern/caucasian/ Asians do and did. So most of us are mutts of a primate - seriously though we are all similar and different and society likes to note our differences to make each of us feel better about ourselves in our space amongst 7 billion Homo sapiens - thankfully home-bound dogs don't seem to worry much about their competitors - too often - just their masters. Oh that sounded racist - excuse me.. "feeders"
Free will is mitigated by societal pressures, laws, religion (god is a limit), and norms (we are social beings who want to limit shunning) which limit how much we are truly free - that was, I believe, sapolsky's point in the recent post by latypova. So even free will to harm yourself does have repercussions for those who have to clean up their mess (they might get arrested if they don't).
I would add that free will in 1790 in the US looked different than 1790 in the UK or 2020 in the US.
While I have never lived in San Francisco, I've worked there for several years, explored the city, eaten many fine meals there. I read the local newspaper, the Chronicle. And am appalled by the continuing, even worsening homelessness and public drug consumption. Now I stay away, avoiding the parks and museums I previously found to be wonderful. Somehow, San Francisco has shot itself in the foot. The COVID restrictions may have killed whatever was left, as the once-famous shopping is MIA and hotels were returned to the bankers with loans unpaid.
For its apparent willingness to try new ideas on reducing homelessness and drugs, it cannot admit defeat and change course. Apparently, San Francisco is where politicians go to die.
SF is where politicians from Willie Brown, DiFi, Gavin Newsom, Pelosi, and Harris plug into the Big D Boss Politics Klepto Machine funded by Silly Valley Cash Cows used for "milk and beef" in their delusional dreams of being Divine Right Rulers Forever backed by untouchable supermajorities.
I watched major company after company exit downtown SF in recent decades. Now, they are leaving the State of California with the State ever more hostile to businesses and rule of law. but with Sachs, Musk, and Shanahan now backing Trump the Silly Cash Cows might now have a new "religion."
The essence of life rests on the concept of love, given to us by God and without which there is no free will, rendering us as heartless robots.
Those who reject the truth of free will have debased minds! The authors mentioned here would not have been able to write their convoluted nonsense if they did not have free will.
[God’s?] modernism experiment 1st took away God, then universal love, which meant we had to make it on our own, in a vast, indifferent, empty universe.
Sapolsky forgot to mention random, which would seem to have been the next stage.
No happy endings any more in modernist literature.
Next, Dada & Absurdism.
Followed by Expressionism:
Sartre, only interested in what lies beyond despair.
The marvelous gift of freedom
of the will & conscience from our Creator God may be the most foundational gift ever. May we not be deluded by satan & his devices & demonic forces. May we be awake & filled with the light & love of God & go forward in His truth & wisdom. ❤️💔❤️🩹
The highest expression of free will, the most fruitful for those of us with such limited vision, is to seek and embrace Divine Will, which is compassionate, wise and beneficent.
But we have to freely choose it. We have free will.
Things could go much more harmoniously if we did not.
[There is a case to be made that the "unjust/jealous god" of the Torah/Old Testament is not the Loving God-the-Father taught by Jesus, but a physical-world mechanistic-creator, the "Demiurge".]
I think I read somewhere about a man who said “do unto Thy neighbour what you wish to be done unto thee, do not do unto Thy neighbour what you do not wish to be done unto thee” or something like that. It’s quite simple, it’s called human dignity. Not so easy to find these days.....
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Or Jews could just be evil, no need to bring Gnosticism into it.
I'm thinking a strong case can be made!
john which arthur lee song has "choose to choose" as a key phrase? you're a vinyl guy
hi. if I may, you might be thinking of the Velvets' 'Black Angel's Death Song'.
wasn't thinking of that one actually but you're right! thanks!
I must say that I never listened to Arthur Lee/Love with any focus, nor do I own any of their recordings, so I am at a loss.
good to know, thanks
20 years ago, and I'm speaking honestly, and hopefully not offensively, I would have perceived your comments as "fundamentalist".
But now, since I no longer hold that "God" is an individualized being, but the primordial source of all potentials and subsequent creations, I also no longer hold a belief in the individualized evil being of Satan.
If Sasha's reasoning is sound, and I believe it is, I think we can conclude that all beings are exercising their free will by the choices they make, no matter what time matrix, density, or realm they happen to be making them from.
But, it's all God.
Or gods, in various stages of evolution or evolution.
May all who read this be blessed.
I also mean no offense, but need to ask, how do you know what you said is true? If you are like the rest of us, you do not know what is in your neighbor's garage without having a look and have never been beyond the edge of the universe or the 3-4 dimensions of your existence. Is it blind faith to go into a bakery and deny the existence of a baker or to assume the baker's existence by the sight and smell of cakes, doughnuts, and cookies, an existence separate from the baked goods? The existence of a personal God is intuitively and immediately obvious by the nature of the universe, but denied because it implies culpability for our choices and actions. Making all things god eliminates culpability in the same way. And regarding the existence of the devil, moral evil is always personal and exists nowhere but in the heart/will of beings possessing free agency. I, too, wish for you to be blessed.
God didn't absolve us from having free wil.
There is the mindset that ok I believe in God and he will look out for me no matter what..
Then that mindset to prove it steps out in front of a moving bus. (I mean this physically and one can use the concept metaphorically)
Splat. They chose to step out in front of a moving bus. That is free will.
Hi Lilly. So in your mind, did God not look out for the person who stepped in front of the bus?
God allows us to make choices freely.
The well being of our physical bodies is our responsibility. We are not that body. We are Spirit. We are eternal.
Not just in my mind, people have free will, when they make decisions that bring consequences,then they blame GOD. Who said God will intercede?
Wow Craig B. Great thoughts. I'll take a crack at answering some of them, but I actually have more questions than answers.
First, any of us only know what we know based on our own experiences. From your baker/bakery scenario, it seems that you are saying that the existence of baked goods, inherently proves the existence of the baker. Therefore, the existence of any and all objects of creation, inherently proves the existence of God.
But does it prove the existence of an individualized, all powerful, God being?
I suspect not.
Don't think I am arguing against the existence of God. I am promoting the idea that our simple minds conveniently cast God in the likeness of an individualized being, because we generally don't have the capacity to perceive the true majesty, and transcendent magnificence of the God reality.
I don't see how casting all things as god relieves us of any culpability. Just the opposite. If we are Gods, wouldn't it be logical to accept responsibility for All of Creation
Lurking in the background of this discussion is the concept of free will. God doesn't reward or punish us. God allows us to create, to choose, to experience. That's how we learn. This a standard that exceeds mere morality. We eventually learn to choose wisely what we create, and bring into our reality. Especially when we realize that we will experience our creations.
If we want to know what's in our neighbors garage, we can take a stroll thru time distance and space and take a look.
Likewise, it is possible to "see" other dimensions, other realms, other time matrices.
Can that be "proven"? Yes, but only by you.
Thank you for the thoughtful and kind response, CS. The "garage" analogy shows our inability to know transcendent realities and answer transcendent questions apart from objective revelation, otherwise we are merely guessing, positing things from blind faith. As you might suspect, I believe God has spoken, first through the prophets, most profoundly in Christ, and then by His appointed Apostles as moved by God the Holy Spirit. All people reason by faith in an ultimate authority, either human opinion and personal, subjective experience, which is unreliable (to wit, the "garage" analogy) or an objective, external revelation. At issue is which can be trusted and comports with reality as we know it (hence the baker behind the baked goods analogy). As for us as "god's," we are inadequate as the cause of reality, and untrustworthy in our interpretation of reality apart from revelation, whereas the personal, eternal, infinite God as creator and sustainer of all things is not only trustworthy and sufficient for the effect, the nature of reality gives intuitive and immediately visible revelation of His genius, power, providence, and goodness, in addition to the more definitive revelation of Scripture. See Romans 1:18ff. Just a little food for thought. Thanks, again, CS.
Craig B - wow, powerful food for thought & substance!
And thank you Craig B. These are delicate understandings to discuss, Especially via a "text" type format. Romans 1:18 is an ominous warning indeed. But forgive me for doubting that an all loving God would punish people for their wickedness. Wickedness in and of itself seems sufficient punishment to me in that one experiences the reality of soulless wickedness. What could be worse?
God allows. Otherwise we would not have Free Will. Why do bad things happen to good people? Because God allows. We are responsible for every thing in our reality.
As additional food for thought I'd like to share one of my favorite verses, John 14:12.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father."
How inspiring! He is not asking to be worshiped, but emulated. Greater works than these will WE do! How would that be possible if we were not of the same fabric as Jesus himself?
The greatest compliment expressed toward another being is to want to "be" like them. To know and demonstrate what they know. We, like Jesus, are the miracle workers. It is our divine right. To ignore that is travesty.
Note: though it may seem that our views are at odds, ultimately they are not. I can see that you have a love for goodness and value righteousness. Though we express it differently, we have that in common. ( I believe)
I'm not clear on what you mean by, "you no longer believe in the individualized evil being of Satan".
I don't believe in one all powerful evil being named "Satan". Or, "the Devil".
Likewise I don't believe in an old, bearded God sitting on a throne in a piece of Real Estate called heaven.
Divine and evil forces are at play within each of us. We make choices, and experience accordingly.
What do you mean, ''and experience accordingly?''
Various stages of involution or evolution........
I fear that under the heavy censorship of many countries, people are going to find opposing facts more difficult to find. I still see many people walking around with inadequate information and are trying to inform themselves. I see the damage that this is causing.
What is causing damage?
Nietzsche was correct. Free will is limited by your choices.
If you were born into a family or society where learning and growing is encouraged, you have the choice to do something positive. In a society where opportunities are slim to none, what free will do people have? The unemployment numbers have been artificially low for decades, as they changed the way it's counted. As soon as you run out of unemployment benefits, you're not counted as unemployed. It's a sham, just like the cost of living index which also was manipulated to count housing much less than it used to, despite housing being the most of our expenses (unless you bought into the market before the ridiculous increases in price).
I'm not condoning the political manipulation around San Francisco, but many people who have jobs cannot afford housing, thanks to this bullshit housing bubble that has been climbing for 2 decades. Funny how that wasn't counted as inflation, but as "investment".
Anyway, look at social democratic states in Europe and see how homelessness is much less than in the good old US. Also what's funny is that a while back I read that those nations have much more upward mobility than our so called "free society". 😂
Why do we have more homeless people and drug addicts? Perhaps because the economy is really shitty?
Do you think people want to be homeless if they had opportunities to work and live in a house or apartment?
San Fran also has more homeless because of the weather being moderate. Perhaps instead of spending $200 billion on the Ukraine war and the billions for other wars, we could fix homelessness 10 times over. But no, that's bad... It's good to spend money to kill people and destroy lives, not to help people.
It is a complex issue and you make some excellent points. But, people can move to where housing is affordable and where they can work to afford it. Not all should live on Nob Hill (SF) or Uptown Manhatten--such is not a divine right. And many, not all, would prefer to live on the street, as long as they can get away with it, than to work or submit to the authority of a boss if given the opportunity. Many, not all, are there because of a long line of choices, freely made. Some choices are constrained, many are not, and opportunities abound if one has the will to pursue them and pay the cost of hard work. I have worked with the homeless and many have a strong sense of entitlement and would curse you if you told them they had to work like the rest of us. Not all, but many.
Exactly true. I worked at a foodbank for awhile and came across the same arrogant sense of entitlement. Gratitude was very rare. Entitlement was the norm. I quit because we were not truly helping anyone. Charity should be temporary and the recipient should be grateful. Otherwise it’s a doomed policy. If every lefty actually worked around the homeless with open eyes they would conclude the same.
I had the same experience handing out Thanksgiving turkeys to people in low-income sections of the Bay Area. Hardly anyone said "thank you". That is when I realized that poverty is first and foremost a mind virus. Poverty starts when you feel too poor to be able to afford a few words of gratitude.
Living in India, I experience this daily. Those we consider destitute, and who think of themselves as poor, don't seem to have words of gratitude in their vocabulary! In fact, we have to train our employees that when someone gives them something, a "thank you" is appropriate, and may incite that person to give them more. However, if there is no acknowledgment, no gratitude, the faucet (the flow/currency) will likely be turned off.
It's an uphill battle. Poverty and a sense of entitlement seem to go hand in hand. I can't see how anyone can work their way out of poverty while feeling that "the world" owes them. The lack of self-responsibility and the unawareness of one's own free will (even if it's a sliver to begin with), hence the lack of personal power!, are our doom.
No they wouldn't, indoctrinated. They would turn around and say there is no free will. It's something else 's or someone else's fault.
doubt you'd find anybody in nob hill who'd want to live in uptown manhattan.
and much as the homeless problem went on steroids when half the nation was depersoned and put out of work in 2020, there won't be any solution to homelessness in general until the border is sealed and the fentanyl (and other stuff) stops coming in
And it would be helpful to bring back the psychiatric institutions that Reagan shut down.
Many who are addicted to drugs have PTSD and other issues.
There's also the issue with the working homeless which have become a much bigger proportion because of our craptastic end stage capitalism where the markets go up up up but wages barely grew.
https://charleshughsmith.substack.com/p/weve-left-the-bottom-60-in-the-dust
The Reagan Admin was forced to defund facilities after being sued by homeless advocates. The homeless argued, successfully, that unless the people were a danger to themselves or others they had a right to be non-violently insane, unhoused, disheveled, drunk/drug addicted and on the street if they so chose.
If you believe that we are eternal beings, wholly or even in part, are all choices made within the construct of a human incarnation? In other words, could some choices be made prior to the birth of a human life?
Some food for thought, a couple verses to consider: "Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being [nephesh, often translated "soul"]"(Gen. 2:7 NAS). "For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. 14 I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from Thee, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. 16 Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them." (Ps. 139:13-16 NAS)
I don't buy the idea that we chose before we existed.
I think it's like Gurdjieff stated, we aren't born with a soul. We grow it through living life. Some are essentially zombies that repeat what others do without a sense of self. Others have a strong sense of self and the key here is humility without weakness.
They have a strong de se of self, because someone I stilled that into them.
Just like empathy, if you do not learn it by the time your formative years end, the you never will. Adults can't learn apathy.
They learn to mimic the words and they learn when to mimic, but it's gets old quick if someone you are around regularly does this.
Without empathy, you have people robbing stores bc they want to, never mind the owner.
What is a soul in your mind?
Then what age do reckon one begins to have a soul?
By soul, I think of the sense of self that exists outside of what society demands. If one just follows orders without that, do they have a soul?
Probably around 7...
"‘ Give me a child till he is seven years old,’ said St Ignatius Loyola, ‘ and I will show you the man.’
The founder of the Jesuit Brotherhood was way ahead of his time. For most of human history, serious-minded adults paid scant attention to the under-sevens. After all, small children have no obvious economic worth. They’re also difficult to control and apparently impervious to reason…
But neuroscience has proved Loyola right. Children’s experiences in those first seven years – when formation of the neural networks is governed largely by emotion – will affect their behaviour throughout life. As an international organisation determined to mould human souls for its own purposes, the Jesuit Brotherhood was spot on in targeting the very young."
Did you read the post?
You can't fix all homelessness unless you plan on locking ppl up.
The reason homelessness grew is they closed most of the mental facilities around the country.
As far as drug addicts, I would suggest that you go and read about the debacle of oxy.
A free will digress thought 💭… There is no free will in an employed medical practice, regardless of the specialty. The self employed folks have free will and many called out the jabs . The problem is , big corporations flooded the market with urgent cares and healthcare employed professionals that feed their corporations and leave the self employed healthcare professionals without patients. We have to realize we have free will and stop feeding the beast . Sasha thank you and enjoy biking! 🚴🏻
🎯🎯🎯
NO. Plenty of people exercised their free will, and stood their ground at their job. Many lost jobs.
You are confusing what free will actually us. People would have had to believe that the shots were bad and then had the moral fiber to stand up and say something.
Not everyone is strong enough (for whatever reason ) to stand up against something..
That's nothing to do with free will.
Agree part of my point is regarding employment vs self employment .
I'm sorry, misunderstood. Many small businesses had to close. I 100% believe it was part of the culling. I think we, the people, should start bringing bartering back. And encouraging ppl with small motor repair, HVAC, Not a company but individuals for whatever reason went with something elze. Plumbing. I don't know your wealth status ( I'm not asking, lol) and/or what your thoughts are on driving New cars as opposed to older cars. I have some definitive ideas about what I believe is coming. I'm not shy about writing them. Most ppl ignore me, but I'm haven't been wrong yet.
Person to person apps are creating their own crypto coin. I joined a P2P, but I was tired, like a cranky 5 yr old, so I was not focused. The idea behind the crypto is for businesses to be in the space and we do not have to be on DIGITAL ID, or as least as possible. Smaller footprint.
DIGITAL ID is coming, no matter who takes the POTUS chair. When I say bartering, I don't mean everyone just trade services for goods, etc. But if ppl are in the same area, think vegetables, steel made products, milk, meat, repair of small engines.
There will be a financial crisis of some sort, people will be told there money is gone. Then offered stability coins, Digital ID, people say now they will not sign up, but when desperate and scared, ppl will do things. The ID will be voluntary of course, but I imagine it resemble covidsmovid and how people who chose to not get a shot were treated..
I've babbled enough.
But I saw things happening through the years but I didn't have the wherewithall to link it to things I didn't know about. My puzzle is almost complete.
Will you acclimate?
It is understandable that those with political motivations would critique free will as it dovetails nicely with their agenda to tear the social fabric apart, it is both surprising and discouraging that an intellectual of Sapolsky's stature fails to see the flaws in his argument for determinism. Does he really believe it, or is he being paid to write such a book to advance the "woke" political agenda? Impossible to say, but I suspect he wouldn't have taken all the trouble to write a book about determinism if he didn't truly believe it. Perhaps when I copy his book and republish under my name, he will not sue me for violating copyright law because I couldn't help my actions.
If you get sued in California, you'll be fine.
Just use the "Twinkie" defense.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/twinkie_defense
It worked then.
Plead you were simply sugar, chemically impaired, now with diminished capacity, and therefore depressed as a result.
Twinkies probably don't have sugar anymore -- it's probably high fructose corn syrup (even worse for you, if that's possible). Not sure about this. It was the mayor of San Francisco who used it, I believe.
Weeee, 🤣. Let me know before you put it out. Rules for me not for thee.
>
What is his stature in your mind?
Sapolsky: Pointy-headed intellectual. Not surprised at the content, but who ARE these publishers today who agree to put this drivel into print? They are the lackeys !
Once purchased do people really read and believe this "stuff"? If so they have more time than I have.
THE ENTIRE GROUP IF ALT - LEFTS BELIEVE IT..
“You don’t have free will”…is a lie repeated enough to alter the perception of reality of the vulnerable (those without God of the Bible) to be lock and step subjects of the state. No wonder the “gods” among us hate Christians, lie about our Christian heritage, envy of the Chinese government, and have great indifference and/or denial about the hell on earth created by godless power and control freaks.
Screw Stanford U.
I will always indicate an ancient date as BC (before Christ) and will never bow to the woke BCE!
What does BCE stand for? And why is it woke?
Not just Stanford.
I came from the third world where nothing made any sense. I imagined America as the ideal world, where everything makes perfect sense. I was stunned, when it occurred to me a while back, how much drivel the popular American culture feeds gullible crowds.
On the topic of Will, not only free will concept is upside down, but will power too. According to the virtual unreality world of American academia, the will power ends where in the real world it suppose to kick in.
After being laughed at for 3 decades for speaking up about nonsense if not evil of the multitasking, I recently noticed, that this ice began melting. All of a sudden, more and more people are pointing to the obvious. Perhaps it’s another effect of the Global Warming 🤷♂️😁
Have an enjoyable American May 1-st weekend, Sasha. )))
thank you
Maybe you didn't get to spend enough time with regular folks in America.
Academia folks started shifting after GenX, brought in abstract concept teaching which fed/feeds this Marxist smelling type thing.
Thank you for taking time and exerting effort to reply.
There is never enough time spent with regular American folks. Are you inviting me for a BBQ? 😉🫶🏻
I love topic of when a shift/trend begins. It appears and you appear to be correct with the starting point of the one you mentioned. Are you familiar with Yuri Bezmenov? Check him out, if not.
You are always welcome to come by for a BBQ, what type of BBQ will you bring?
Just kidding my friend.
I live in the South, the weather is almost always good for a BBQ.
I forgot what point I made. The dumbing down of society that I noticed around 36 years ago? I too love conversations about when things began. Because otherwise, I'm just spitting in the wind, talking to myself, which is okay too.
I'm not familiar with the author you bring up. I will check them out.
Write anytime, we can shoot the breeze .
Not a fan of shooting the breeze
Here is Bezmenov:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g
Shooting the breeze is necessary with his things are these days.
There is always time to talk about things that have nothing to do with Anything on sub stack. Well, actually I do that w a wonderful person in the UK..
I will always retain my humor and my optimism.
For any rational person to submit that we Homo sapiens lack free will, is to suggest that we are little more than exceptionally clever apes, driven entirely by instincts and impulse.
However, all but the willfully blind can see that we possess qualities which transcend the merely visceral attributes of organized matter.
In the late 20th century it became fashionable to ascribe what we perceive to be morality to evolutionary chance. That, for example, altruism reduced inter-tribal violence, leading to longer lifespans of tribal members and thus tribal flourishing, resulting in those tribes exerting greater genetic influence on the species.
But there's zero evidence, nor can there be any, that altruism wasn't the conscious choice of a free will.
Each of us intuitively KNOWS that we often make choices which will NOT improve our own situation in the moment, but which WILL improve that of others; even strangers. On occasion we might choose to do good for someone who means us harm. That choice transcends mere instincts, and must come from a force outside the individual.
From God. If you believe God exists, free will is a gift. If you do not believe God exists, "free will" is a "social construct".
A very beneficial social construct.
Americans have free will, but do they use it?
I exercise my e hourly and you? It's not a good idea to lump ppll together, especially Americans.
*mine
They use it you can hear them from miles away, such a joy!
The left is racist. It is racist to think that I black person does not know the difference between right and wrong because he is black or is otherwise not responsible for his own actions.
Racism is judging someone based solely on their skin color.
Bigoted would most likely be the word to describe the behavior you speak of.
Allie, think about it...
There is actually ONE Identifiable "Race"
The HUMAN RACE...
These 'definitions' may be culturally imposed mental restraints...
If all of nature is binary...
Perhaps mammals do carry some historical DNA ( as twin studies attest, and grandma's cough sounds the same coming out of one of her grandchildren)...
Yet all mammals bleed red..
How are humans bodies different 'races' we wonder...
Maybe this 'race' stuff derives from societal conditioning?
As does the concept of 'Free Will' as the 'intellectual's seem to be redefining it...
Because, well...
They are 'smarter'
LOL
Well let's not preach about "race". Dog "breeds" are closer to humans. Some Neanderthals bred with Homo sapiens - but until 200 years ago no sub Saharan black had any Neanderthal but middle Eastern/caucasian/ Asians do and did. So most of us are mutts of a primate - seriously though we are all similar and different and society likes to note our differences to make each of us feel better about ourselves in our space amongst 7 billion Homo sapiens - thankfully home-bound dogs don't seem to worry much about their competitors - too often - just their masters. Oh that sounded racist - excuse me.. "feeders"
The Puppet Masters put and continue putting distractions in front of us to keep us divided and believing nonsense .
Richard! ☝🏽✌️yes!
Free will has been around and is same. This idk about
Free will is mitigated by societal pressures, laws, religion (god is a limit), and norms (we are social beings who want to limit shunning) which limit how much we are truly free - that was, I believe, sapolsky's point in the recent post by latypova. So even free will to harm yourself does have repercussions for those who have to clean up their mess (they might get arrested if they don't).
I would add that free will in 1790 in the US looked different than 1790 in the UK or 2020 in the US.
Enjoy Lake Tahoe!!
While I have never lived in San Francisco, I've worked there for several years, explored the city, eaten many fine meals there. I read the local newspaper, the Chronicle. And am appalled by the continuing, even worsening homelessness and public drug consumption. Now I stay away, avoiding the parks and museums I previously found to be wonderful. Somehow, San Francisco has shot itself in the foot. The COVID restrictions may have killed whatever was left, as the once-famous shopping is MIA and hotels were returned to the bankers with loans unpaid.
For its apparent willingness to try new ideas on reducing homelessness and drugs, it cannot admit defeat and change course. Apparently, San Francisco is where politicians go to die.
SF is where politicians from Willie Brown, DiFi, Gavin Newsom, Pelosi, and Harris plug into the Big D Boss Politics Klepto Machine funded by Silly Valley Cash Cows used for "milk and beef" in their delusional dreams of being Divine Right Rulers Forever backed by untouchable supermajorities.
I watched major company after company exit downtown SF in recent decades. Now, they are leaving the State of California with the State ever more hostile to businesses and rule of law. but with Sachs, Musk, and Shanahan now backing Trump the Silly Cash Cows might now have a new "religion."
The essence of life rests on the concept of love, given to us by God and without which there is no free will, rendering us as heartless robots.
Those who reject the truth of free will have debased minds! The authors mentioned here would not have been able to write their convoluted nonsense if they did not have free will.
“a vast, indifferent, empty universe”
[God’s?] modernism experiment 1st took away God, then universal love, which meant we had to make it on our own, in a vast, indifferent, empty universe.
Sapolsky forgot to mention random, which would seem to have been the next stage.
No happy endings any more in modernist literature.
Next, Dada & Absurdism.
Followed by Expressionism:
Sartre, only interested in what lies beyond despair.
Then I guess postmodernism took away meaning...
Spot the deliberate mistake. I meant Existentialism, doh!
Tho I guess Expressionism, figurative & Abstract, + Surrealism must fit in somehow...
& Minimalism.
I mean, the CIA was promoting AE everywhere.
And I was struck in the 80s that Minimalism in music & art was plugged so much.
INDIVIDUALISM. Where is that in all of this.
I guess it was part of modernism from the start